Ep. 3 - Research, nutrition, and alzheimer's: Jennifer Ventrelle, Faculty from Rush University Medical Center
February 10th, 2022
Welcome back to the Weight Loss with Hypnosis Podcast!
This is a transcript of the Weight Loss with Hypnosis podcast. To listen to the full episode, click the link here.
Doug: [00:01:00] Welcome back to the weight loss with hypnosis podcast. My name is Doug Sands and I’m the hypnotist and the host behind this show. And today I am joined by Jennifer Ventrelle. Jennifer is a very experienced expert in this field. Not only does she do private practice, but she’s also an assistant professor doing research on exactly what she’s giving to her clients.
I touched on Jennifer’s specific expertise and qualifications in this interview. And what you should know before we dive right in is that Jennifer is heavily research-based in her work. As I mentioned, she’s currently an assistant professor at Rush University Medical Center in Chicago. In this interview, we touched on the science and studies of all areas of nutrition, not just weight loss.
There are so many fascinating areas that I would have loved to dive deep into with Jennifer, especially looking at research on Alzheimer’s and research on carbohydrates and how that impacts our energy and our [00:02:00] weight. And if you’d like to know more and to learn more about her specific research, Jennifer had a lot of great additional resources that she mentioned near the end of this interview.
So if you’re someone who is looking for hardest science, Behind your health. If you’re wanting exact studies with exact numbers, percentages, and data to back up these claims, if you’re curious about all the ways that our nutrition and fitness impacts our health and not just our weights, I highly highly recommend that you check out Jennifer’s work.
Know that all links that we mentioned in this interview are in the show notes or in the description if you’re watching this on YouTube.
I really enjoyed this conversation with Jennifer Ventrelle from Choice Nutrition and Wellness. With that, let’s dive right into the interview.
Doug: Welcome back to the weight loss with hypnosis podcast. My name is Doug Sands [00:03:00] and I’m joined today by Jennifer Ventrelle. Jennifer Ventrelle is the registered dietician, nutritionist and personal trainer behind Choice Nutrition and Wellness. Jennifer is also an assistant professor in the Department of Preventative Medicine at Rush University Medical Center in Chicago.
Jennifer, thank you so much for joining me and welcome to the show.
Jennifer: Yeah, thanks Doug for having me. Happy to be here today.
Doug: Absolutely. I’m really glad to hear that, really glad to have you as well. So looking forward, I really love to ask Jennifer, what is kind of your story? How did you get into this field what makes it special for you?
Jennifer: Yeah, it’s a good question. I get this question a lot, right? So, when I was young, my dad was not a healthy man. When I was young, growing up, he, had a number of different conditions, was in and out of the hospital a lot and I just kind of observe that. And so I thought I wanted to [00:04:00] go into the medical field, cause that’s what you do when somebody is sick, you become a doctor and you fix them. And so I was pre-med when I went to college and, I remember just feeling like it just wasn’t a good fit.
Not only when I was sitting in organic chemistry and wanted to pull my hair out, but also when, you know, just when you get that sort of intuitive feeling. And I remember just having a really heart to heart conversation with someone I barely knew in my dorms. Her name was Glenda and talking to her about how I didn’t know what I was going to do if I didn’t become a doctor, because that was always what I wanted to do and why I was inspired, and I saw my dad struggle. Right? And she said to me, well, why don’t you go into dietetics? That’s what I’m doing. And I honestly, at the time I did not even know what dietetics was. So I took the [00:05:00] first general nutrition course and like really fell in love with it. And it’s interesting. It sort of led me down this path of not only nutrition, but lifestyle and physical activity.
Jennifer: I’m also a qualified mindfulness meditation teacher, and it’s just all works together in terms of lifestyle. So joke that I always say is that Glenda, the good witch pointed me in the right direction towards my career.
Doug: That’s excellent. Yeah.
Doug: having the, personal, side of our practice. Having that investment. It sounds like having followed your passion. This is something that it’s not just a career for you. This is something that you’re actually invested in emotionally.
Jennifer: Yeah, absolutely. In fact, that’s how I got into the mindfulness field it’s that sort of intuition piece, kind of listening to what happens next, because I think even when you figure out what you want to [00:06:00] do, that can get stale. And so, I started in nutrition and then I got really interested in exercise, then I stopped working with all dieticians and started working with all psychologists. And it’s now, I’m in the research and it’s just all
Jennifer: of really unfolded quite naturally. And I’ve been able to I think use myself as that example. that’s really how, I like to guide people on their wellness journey is to listen to their intuition.
Doug: That’s excellent. And what I think is really interesting about your practice and your history with this, that you are approaching this from so many different angles. When I talk with other nutritionists and dieticians, there’s not that emphasis on mindfulness or psychology, and I’d love to know what is your process look like when working with clients from all these different angles?
Jennifer: Yeah. Excellent question. This is an excellent question, especially for someone on the business side of [00:07:00] things. Because as you mentioned, I’m, still involved in research at the hospital, but working one-on-one with clients now is all sort of my private practice and it’s a business, right? And so, you know, you take all these tips and tricks on how to kind of sell yourself and sell your business and get people interested. And I would say I’m completely the opposite, I do not try to sell anyone on this material. If anything, I am straight with people and tell them that it’s going to work best when you’re ready to do it.
I’m not trying to convince anybody to do anything they’re not ready for. And even if it’s just taking, the first couple steps and having that support, I think that that’s really important. So to answer your question, that’s where I start. I start by finding out where the person is in terms of their readiness to change.
And then, my job is to meet them where they’re at. So [00:08:00] I have, a couple of different, programs, that I do, but any program that I might suggest someone enroll in, or even just work with me one-on-one either, if it’s just for one session, I start with, an assessment. I want to know, medical history, I want to know, eating patterns, I want to know physical activity patterns, any physical injuries, any mental or, psychological stressors. Cause we all have those. That’s not something that’s uncommon, especially these days. So I have a very, a pretty comprehensive, assessment that I asked people to fill out.
And if they’re interested in, nutrition, one of the three main programs that I do is a weight loss program. So for example, if they were interested in the weight loss program that I would ask them to keep at least three days of a food record, so that I get an idea of what their eating habits are like, and then I’m best able to again, meet them where they’re at.
It’s not like a canned diet, eat this, not that. So I think that’s, really [00:09:00] important for me when I’m working with someone.
Doug: Yeah, absolutely. And touching back on that moment of being ready to make these changes and to really get into this program, how does someone know when they are at that point, that they want to work with a dietician
Jennifer: Yeah, I guess it’s a really good question. Sometimes they don’t, sometimes they think they know. Because it’s January, Doug, I promise you, I promise you in two weeks, people are going to be calling me and telling me that they need my help immediately. It’s like, absolutely. I think they’ve totally forgotten that they were supposed to be eating well and exercising and doing all this stuff, all year round.
So, my wish for people is like, it doesn’t matter if it’s January, it doesn’t matter if it’s Monday. You know, I think my mother was on a diet every single Monday of my entire adolescent life. But it doesn’t matter figuring out what things are [00:10:00] really going to work in your life. And so, I’ll ask people, an example might be, I’ll ask people on a scale of one to 10, how, realistic does this feel for you?
How, far away from your current patterns, is this going to take you from. And again, if using the example of nutrition, that’s why I love to get that initial history of eating patterns, at least three days. If they do a week, that’s even better because, I asked them to document everything they eat and drink, the times, where they were at, you know, even sometimes mood.
And then that, and don’t change anything. Just get it writing it down, don’t change it. Right? And then when we’re working together and I’m
Jennifer: to make recommendations, I intentionally won’t something far out of left fields. Or even if it’s something that I think are good guidelines that you need to get to where the evidence-based guidelines that are recommended for research and health and wellness. I would do it [00:11:00] gradually again, kind of meeting them where they’re at.
Doug: I think that’s really powerful, both noticing writing down what you’re eating, because oftentimes it’s unconscious, you know, we’re not really realizing many snacks we have in a day. also that point that you mentioned, you’re not trying to or to, make too drastic of changes too suddenly, I think that’s a really important point.
And at your practice as well, who do you often work with? What kind of demographic do you most likely work with?
Jennifer: You know, I really have worked with people across the board. So, when I first started working at the hospital, before I was exclusively doing research there, I was clinical. And so, if you’re familiar with Rush University it’s, in a very diverse area of Chicago. And so, I’ve seen people from all walks of life, lots of different cultures, lots of different religious, lots of different, religious backgrounds, lots of different cultural [00:12:00] practices, lots of different diets, vegetarianism.
So again, it’s that concept of kind of seeing what people where they want to be and what they need, in terms of you mentioned demographics. So if I’m thinking of, the traditional term demographics, age range, um, adults, I, I see mostly adults, you know, 18 and older, but, all the way into seniors.
So our biggest research study right now, and is one of the programs that I’m working with my private clients with, is something called the mind diet. So our research group is conducting the first clinical trial to test, the effects of, a Mediterranean type diet on the outcome of cognitive decline.
So it’s essentially predicting the risk for Alzheimer’s disease.
Doug: That’s fair.
Jennifer: Yeah. So as of late, I’ve, gotten really familiar with working with older adults and, knowing the, unique needs of older [00:13:00] adults. And some of the research is really fascinating right now. So yeah, it really spans, across age groups, cultural groups, preferences, backgrounds, and I might say another area, in terms of, I guess, kind of specialty, you know, I used to work in an endocrinologist clinics, so I’m pretty familiar with, treatment for chronic conditions like diabetes and high blood pressure and high cholesterol.
So those are all things I’m very comfortable with with people to… just essentially customizing for the person. Yeah, I will say there are definitely, you know, I’ve never mean to present myself as a one stop shop. There’s certainly things I do not know. You know, what’s really hot in nutrition uhm, research and literature right now is, a lot of different outcomes and the gut microbiome.
So lots of different things going on with the gastrointestinal tract. And that can be, things that’s connected to some of the research, [00:14:00] even that I’m doing like the outcomes of cognition, even all the way, the disease, celiac disease, irritable bowel syndrome. And so when someone comes to me with problems like that, I tell them, gosh, that’s not my area of expertise, but I certainly know some dieticians that are really good at that. So I always have a referral network.
Doug: That’s excellent. Yeah. And that’s actually why I’m this podcast to have that referral network when it’s my wheelhouse. And I think that brings up a really great point is that oftentimes what I’m doing is weight loss and what many dieticians and health experts, that’s kind of the big ticket item that people come to us for.
But there are so many different areas of our health that are impacted by our mental habits, by our eating, by our nutrition. And, there are so many different ways that we can change our life with these certain tools. I’d really love to know, especially from you with the research background in this area, what do you think [00:15:00] the most important thing to know nutrition and dietetics, what do you think the most important piece of that is?
Jennifer: A really loaded question, Doug. Um, gosh, you know, It depends. on, I mean, are you asking specifically for weight loss? Like if I had to sum it up in a couple of what I think are evidence-based or research-based great tips for weight loss, is that..
Doug: I would say. I would say whatever you think is most important to
Doug: I’m not looking for like one, you know, silver bullet kind of idea. I’d really like to know what you most wants, future clients or someone you’re working with what you really want them to understand before fully diving into the program.
Jennifer: Got it. Okay. Yeah. That’s good. Now, that makes sense. Well I think it’s, you know, it reminds me of, kind of making that shift to moving over and working [00:16:00] with all of my behavioral colleagues and friends. It’s so much more important that consistency of your behaviors and your habits. You do not have to be perfect. You do not have to be on a diet. You do not have to cut out all of your favorite foods. You do not have to run six miles on the treadmill every single day. It’s all relative. So that’s what I look to find as a couple of things that you can improve relatively speaking. I’ll give you a few examples.
Most people don’t eat enough vegetables. So doesn’t mean that you have to become a vegetarian or a vegan for 30 whole days, just to see if you can do it and give up all your alcohol, dry January. You know, we hear all of these things right? You can, if you want, but you know, whatever is the likelihood that you’re going to stick to that forever?
So, how about we see where you are now [00:17:00] and make small changes. So I tell people to eat mostly vegetables, most days. You can have some other stuff too. So see that? That’s probably my biggest thing for nutrition. For physical activity, just move. Again, so many people aren’t doing like daily activities enough.
Do you know what the best exercise for weight loss?
Doug: I guess, I don’t know.
Jennifer: Oh, sorry. You cut out. I didn’t know if you wanted me to repeat the question or if you were asking what it is. It’s walking. Walking. Just yes. of course you can always build upon that, right?
Like there’s always, different strength type routines, different muscle groups. Like you can get into really, really fancy stuff, probably 80% of the people that I start working with weight loss, just walked more, they would see an effects.
Doug: Interesting. That is fascinating to know. I mean, so many people they think to lose weight, we’ve got to, you know do CrossFit or [00:18:00] an expensive membership, but just walking that’s…
Jennifer: Walking. Walking, yeah. And then probably the last thing I would say. and again as I mentioned before, I feel like a lot of my own experiences have guided how I guide other people now, but the stress management is really big and that’s a really big, you know, there’s lots of different ways you could address that.
It could be anything from, doing the literal practice of sitting down and meditating all the way to getting more sleep. Now, I know a lot of people that are eating relatively healthy and they move enough, but their sleep patterns are crap.
Jennifer: You know, So kind of evaluating all of that. Where’s your biggest stressors coming from?
Doug: And touching on that idea of stress and mindfulness and the other areas of our health and nutrition. So often what I’m working with with my clients, it’s not actually weight loss. It’s about dealing with this root issue, whatever it may be, whether it’s a stress [00:19:00] or event in their past that they’re still, compensating for. And so, I’d love to know in your own experience, how much is strictly diet and exercise, and how much is the mental, I don’t want to say attitudes, but the mental approach that we take to those things.
Jennifer: Yeah, this is a good question too. People say things like this all the time. Like, oh, it’s 80% mental or some people say it’s 80% diet or, you know, I, I don’t know any circular studies out there that I actually tried to evaluate that, I’m not privy to them, but, as much as I would love to believe that you could fake it till you make it with weight loss, you really do need to get have the nutrition is really the most important thing.
It really is. Now, I’ll tell you what the research says. Your nutrition is the most important thing in terms of [00:20:00] seeing results in the active weight loss phase. Does that mean that you shouldn’t exercise? No. Because guess what? In terms of maintaining the weight that you lost and in terms of your abilities to keep the weight off that you’ve lost, physical activity is the factor that’s going to help that. And specifically that’s where I would say then later on that’s when the important stuff of the strength training and, preserving your muscle mass comes in, and we could get into, lots of more details, but, nutrition walking, then strength training.
Doug: Absolutely. I often tell people that you simply can’t outrun your fork, meaning if you’re trying to lose weight or you’ve got a terrible diet and it’s impacting your health, you can exercise all you want, but you’re trying to make up for lost ground at that point.
Jennifer: Totally. So listen, people don’t want to hear this because it’s like so old school, but it honestly, it really is calories in calories out. [00:21:00] Now, the type of calories that you eat is going to affect things like, how satisfied you are, your cravings, how hungry you are for the next meal, how likely you are to stick to your diet, right?
Okay. So I’m not saying that’s not important, so that’s why it absolutely positively does matter for the effect of weight loss, but here’s the other thing about nutrition is, and there’s this whole other area of food quality. And that’s what a lot of our research in the BrainHealth looks at too.
We’ve got a lot of people that are normal weight and otherwise relatively healthy, but the quality of the diet, things like your saturated fats,
Jennifer: foods, your sweets, your really high fat things are going to start to affect your chemistry and, can be really, harmful.
Doug: Yeah. And just because we look, quote and quote healthy because we’re not overweight or we seem [00:22:00] to eat healthy all the time. That doesn’t mean that we always have that perfect relationship with the food. And that’s why even when I’m working with, a bodybuilder or something on, body image issues, even though they look fantastic physically wise, they might still have that really negative relationship with food, whether it’s, you know, restrictive diet they might simply not know how to defeat themselves everyday.
Yeah, absolutely. you can’t just look at someone and assume that they are healthy. And also knowledge, mentioned bodybuilders. It reminds me of when I was working at a fitness center for a while, which I won’t name, but a lot of these trainers that I would work with that would get ready for these, bodybuilding competitions, it sounds like maybe you’ve interviewed some or maybe, encountered some, but it’s really amazing cause they’re quite brilliant. They know exactly how the body works and know [00:23:00] exactly the outcome that they’re looking for is not health. You know, they’re trying to very specifically the way they look and they know down to the minute. You know, thread of rice. How exactly, how to manipulate that and do that, it’s like totally fascinating. But yes, to your point, it doesn’t necessarily mean it’s healthy.
Doug: touching on that one more moment. I have a friend who went into bodybuilding we had a conversation about it a couple of years after he got into it. And he said, Doug, it’s not about being the strongest person out there. It’s being the person who looks the
Doug: And so out your arms in a certain way that
Doug: your muscles rather than build up your actual strength. It’s a fascinating area, but a topic for another time.
Jennifer: Yeah. Yeah. Still interesting.
Doug: Looking at your own practice again, what do you think the most common issue is, that you work with when seeing clients?
Jennifer: Um, [00:24:00] it probably begins as weight loss, ’cause I think that is at least the people who seek out my services. I think that’s what most people are looking for. But I think it’s what you said earlier. I think once they begin to dig a little bit deeper, realize that, other things need to be addressed first and the weight is just a symptom of those other things. And you know, don’t misunderstand me. I’m not a psychologist, so the minute I feel like it’s crossing over into psychotherapy, that’s when I also have people I can refer out to. Perhaps even people like you, Doug, because that’s not, it’s not where I, how I operate. But it is interesting to watch people self-discover some of the things that, they didn’t know were issues.
Doug: Yeah, absolutely. We talked about a little bit of your advice and guidelines, I should say. you have any uncommon advice that you give to clients [00:25:00] looking to change? Maybe something that’s not quite as common that people here in the weight loss industry or health industry all the time.
Jennifer: Uh, you know, I often tell people. You’re more likely to succeed when you fail.
Doug: Aha? Tell me more.
Jennifer: The people that have been most successful that I’ve worked with, or the people that have gone out and tried a bunch of other things. And again, it’s that self-discovery piece. I figured out this didn’t work. This didn’t work, this didn’t work, or… maybe it was the right strategy and they were on the right path, but they didn’t get discouraged.
They were able to kind of pick themselves up and start again because that’s inevitable. That’s inevitable life for all of us with any goal that we’re trying to achieve. No, one’s smooth sailing towards the rainbow, the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow, yeah.
Doug: I have to give the metaphor that if a runner [00:26:00] falls down in the middle of a marathon, he doesn’t go back to the starting line to start again. You just pick yourself up and keep going.
Jennifer: Great. That’s great. I love that.
Doug: Yeah. at, you know, wrapping things up. Do you have any resources or tips or tools that, users can use at home you like to share?
Jennifer: Yeah. So, you know, in our world of, online and zoom and you know, we’re on screens all day and apps and things like that. I think there are some really, there’s some really not useful ones, but there’s also some really useful ones that can make, life a lot easier. another big thing that we see in the literature in terms of research for weight loss and sustainable weight loss is, So keeping track of what you are eating and drinking can be a really successful tool in and of itself. Even if you don’t make that conscious decision that you’re going to change things, taking inventory and becoming aware of what you’re doing. So there is a lot of good nutrition and [00:27:00] fitness tracking apps out there.
I like “Lose It”. I also like, there’s one called “My Net Diary”. I like that one because there’s a little button that says, show carbs. So that’s one thing that I do work a lot with is people’s meal timing and their spacing of their carbohydrates because, as you space out your carbohydrates throughout the day, it can predict so much, it can predict your hunger level, it can predict the types of foods that you crave. It can predict the amount of food that you eat. It can predict when you eat next time. So it’s just, it’s like this very careful science that can be mapped out. So that app is good for that. And then there’s the classic ones like My Fitness Pal or something like a Fitbit or an activity tracker.
Jennifer: I think that’s another really good tool for self-monitoring and those apps often have the nutrition tool inside of them, if you want everything in one spot. I think that’s really good. [00:28:00] And for mindfulness, if you’re new to mindfulness, I really like either “Headspace”, it teaches you how to meditate or “Calm”.
If you do just the free subscription to calm, you’ll get like the introductory meditations and that’s really good for a beginner. And if you’re ready to advance a little bit, I would recommend upgrading to the membership version. those are probably my favorite, apps. Um, yeah.
Doug: Yeah, Headspace is a favorite of mine as well. It’s actually what taught me to meditate in the first place. And it’s what I still use. And just talking, you know, listeners, just talking with Jennifer, there are so many different areas of the studies and the nutrition that I would love to just dive deeper into.
This is really just a surface level essentially, but if you’re someone who really wants the data our nutrition, the exact science, it sounds like Jennifer is a great resource for you. Jennifer, I’d love to know, you are based in Chicago, but in this time of zoom [00:29:00] and the internet, do you work with clients outside of Chicago or is it only face-to-face?
Jennifer: No. Absolutely. In fact, most of my practice right now is online. Not only because of pandemic and how our world is shifting. But through that again, here’s a little piece of self discovery. I just noticed how much more people I could reach. How many more people I could reach. And it’s just so great.
It’s just so great. So yeah, absolutely. I thought of a couple other resources, as we’ve been talking, when you said scientific data. So there’s, the, if anyone’s interested in the data on Alzheimer’s disease. There’s a book called Diet For The Mind by Martha Clare Morris. is our principal investigator. Sadly, she passed away, um, in February of 2020 that our research group is doing our best to carry on her legacy in her absence. But, you’ll see a lot of things out there called The Mind Diet, cause she didn’t want to copyright it. She thought it was [00:30:00] science and it should be accessible to everybody. But, look for Martha Clare Morris’ work because that’s the true blue stuff that’s being researched at Rush. And there’s a second book that’ll be coming out too later on next year.
Doug: That’s excellent. Yeah.
Jennifer: Yeah. So there’s that. And then the other one that I can send you a link to, is I actually do an open guided meditation every Friday morning at 9:00 AM central. Anyone’s welcome to join that. Whether they’re new beginners to meditation or experienced meditators, I try to mix it up and, target is joining for the day so I can send you that link too.
Doug: Absolutely. Please do. I will include all of these links below in the show notes or in the description. If you’re watching this on YouTube and for anyone who’s never tried meditation, I really encourage you to check that out because oftentimes we don’t know quite what it is and having an experienced person to really help us through that and having a community of people who are also perhaps trying this for the first time or who are also very [00:31:00] experienced, that can be really helpful in getting started.
And Jennifer finally, where are all the ways that people can find out more about it?
Jennifer: Yeah. Um, yeah, I can include all those things too. So my website is choicenutritionandwellness.com. And so people can see my services on my website there. I’ll also include my email address and people can contact me if they want to do one-on-one services. We’re starting a mindfulness meditation group, at the beginning of January, so I can send you that flyer as well, but we also have, you know, we always have ongoing one-on-one programs as well for the weight loss study or the Alzheimer’s prevention program.
Doug: Excellent. Well, thank you so much for that. And again, all the links are in the description. Jennifer, this has been a fantastic conversation. Thank you so much for joining me on the show today.
Jennifer: Thank you very much for having me. It’s been lovely talking to you.
Thank you so much for [00:32:00] listening into this conversation with Jennifer Ventrelle. Again, I highly recommend that you check out the resources she mentioned, including the work on Alzheimer’s. I know that I’ll be doing some research into that as well, because this is a fascinating topic. Know that all links are included in the show notes or in the YouTube description.
If you’d like a single link to find all of this, Jennifer’s website is simply choicenutritionandwellness.com. And if you’d like even more awesome conversations with experts from all areas of health and wellness, subscribe. Click that red button on YouTube, or click that subscribe button on your podcasting app, because there are so many great conversations just waiting for you to learn about.
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Again, my name is Doug Sands and I help compulsive and emotional eaters to end the obsession with food and make peace with it in as little as two sessions. Thank you so much for joining me and wherever you are on your health journey, let’s keep that momentum moving forward. I’ll see you guys next week.
- Lose It
- My Net Diary
- My Fitness Pal
o http://choicenutritionandwellness.com/ – CHOICE Nutrition and Wellness website
o firstname.lastname@example.org – direct contact for Jennifer
o https://www.rushu.rush.edu/faculty/jennifer-ventrelle-ms – Jennifer’s Rush University Medical Center profile
o https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rSt7BK7uAKQ – MIND Diet YouTube clip
o https://www.edgelearningcommunity.com/about/our-team – Jennifer’s work at the EDGE Learning and Wellness Collegiate Community
o https://www.linkedin.com/in/jennifer-ventrelle-915a488/ – Jennifer’s Linkedin profile
o https://ce.todaysdietitian.com/node/70745#group-tabs-node-course-default1 – Today’s Dietitian Continuing Education Course on the MIND Diet
o https://rush.zoom.us/j/98790411967 – Zoom link to open Mindfulness Meditation sitting group, Fridays 9am CST
Open guided meditation every Friday morning at 9:00 AM central
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